Kiri ☂ (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
taotrooper) wrote2007-06-30 03:17 pm
taotrooper) wrote2007-06-30 03:17 pm
Feelings woe woe woe
This isn't really triggered by anything. I guess I want to distract my mind from the news my mom fell down some stone stairs in her garden (she's fine, just really scratched).
I was once sort of questioned, a while ago, how come I was a CLAMP fan if I wasn't digging the current angst. My own sympathetic capacity was also put in trial just 'cuz I was indifferent to two twin boys locked away from each other with piles of dead bodies.
See, I liked RG Veda. I liked Tokyo Babylon and X, although I'm slowly losing interest in it. So I don't think angst per se is a bad thing. I do like angst. Then why can I stand TB/X, RGV, Clover, Shirahime-sho, and all those manga filled with tragedy, but not TRC's most recent chapters?
I think I might have a theory. It's the magazine syndrome. When I read the manga mentioned above, the series were already finished or had just entered the Hated Hiatus. So really, I read the chapters volume by volume. Between volume and volume, the time period would be either really short (question of minutes or hours) or medium-term (one or two months). So it never really dragged on to me in that format. I'd finish the series, or would be spoiled for them, before it felt heavy.
However, XXXHOLiC and Tsubasa are the first CLAMP manga I'm reading as they're been published, and keeping up to date with Japan. The weekly periodicity is a killer, even though it kills me in different ways than most fans. So basically, it looks like the waaaangst just drags on and on, gnawing your brain endlessly. I'm sure that if I had read Acid Tokyo, Infinity, plus Celes in a volume batch, I wouldn't have this issue not even remotely. It's something that happens to me with some Shounen Jump serieshi Bleach, and I know I'm not alone in this... just not in the CLAMP fandom.
And yes, I said I liked angst like every other girl, but it's also true I'm a person of balance. I like heartbreaking pasts. I like character introspective. I like silly faces and comedy relief. I like minor characters alternating with main ones, and not only the newest ones that have to do with the current plot. I like old plots returning. I like foreshadowing. I like to see all of this blending (as much as possible)! (*) See, X and RGV did focus in several characters, and it wasn't always about the wangst.
TRC isn't balanced to me: they started with fluffy comedy for volumes, then threw over-the-top-is-this-even-humanly-possible angst. I know that it works for a lot of people and think this is awesome, but it's not the way I like storytelling. I don't mind extreme gore and woe when a series is ending, like RGV, but Tsubasa is... well, I'm not sure if it's right in the middle or just wrapping Fay's issues and FWR's schemes up to move on to the ending. Either way, it just means more Woe-Is-Me is yet to come, and they'll keep throwing more WTF twists (I like CLAMPtwists, though, most of the times), and always focused on the five/six main characters. It's too unbalanced for my taste, and instead of getting me answers or sympathy, I get more confused and start to find characters annoying for excess of spotlight. Then again, I can't stand post!Rainbow Bridge!Subaru's subplot, so there might be a problem within me and The Ultimate CLAMP Angst Triggers.
Still, I don't think I'm a bad or a lesser CLAMP fan because I'm not digging it, or my nose isn't dripping for Fay|Yuui's Sad Past Of Dooooooom. It's just the magazine format plus my non-CLAMP fandoms' awesomeness what make it lose points, along with my ideas about storytelling.
(*) It IS quite possible for a mangaka to do all those things at once, believe it or not. Probably not in most popular, fanservice-oriented fandoms, but it certainly can be done. I can think of several manga that managed to pull this off beautifully and, unlike Fay's pastor SAINT SEIYA LOL, have drove me to tears more than once.
I was once sort of questioned, a while ago, how come I was a CLAMP fan if I wasn't digging the current angst. My own sympathetic capacity was also put in trial just 'cuz I was indifferent to two twin boys locked away from each other with piles of dead bodies.
See, I liked RG Veda. I liked Tokyo Babylon and X, although I'm slowly losing interest in it. So I don't think angst per se is a bad thing. I do like angst. Then why can I stand TB/X, RGV, Clover, Shirahime-sho, and all those manga filled with tragedy, but not TRC's most recent chapters?
I think I might have a theory. It's the magazine syndrome. When I read the manga mentioned above, the series were already finished or had just entered the Hated Hiatus. So really, I read the chapters volume by volume. Between volume and volume, the time period would be either really short (question of minutes or hours) or medium-term (one or two months). So it never really dragged on to me in that format. I'd finish the series, or would be spoiled for them, before it felt heavy.
However, XXXHOLiC and Tsubasa are the first CLAMP manga I'm reading as they're been published, and keeping up to date with Japan. The weekly periodicity is a killer, even though it kills me in different ways than most fans. So basically, it looks like the waaaangst just drags on and on, gnawing your brain endlessly. I'm sure that if I had read Acid Tokyo, Infinity, plus Celes in a volume batch, I wouldn't have this issue not even remotely. It's something that happens to me with some Shounen Jump series
And yes, I said I liked angst like every other girl, but it's also true I'm a person of balance. I like heartbreaking pasts. I like character introspective. I like silly faces and comedy relief. I like minor characters alternating with main ones, and not only the newest ones that have to do with the current plot. I like old plots returning. I like foreshadowing. I like to see all of this blending (as much as possible)! (*) See, X and RGV did focus in several characters, and it wasn't always about the wangst.
TRC isn't balanced to me: they started with fluffy comedy for volumes, then threw over-the-top-is-this-even-humanly-possible angst. I know that it works for a lot of people and think this is awesome, but it's not the way I like storytelling. I don't mind extreme gore and woe when a series is ending, like RGV, but Tsubasa is... well, I'm not sure if it's right in the middle or just wrapping Fay's issues and FWR's schemes up to move on to the ending. Either way, it just means more Woe-Is-Me is yet to come, and they'll keep throwing more WTF twists (I like CLAMPtwists, though, most of the times), and always focused on the five/six main characters. It's too unbalanced for my taste, and instead of getting me answers or sympathy, I get more confused and start to find characters annoying for excess of spotlight. Then again, I can't stand post!Rainbow Bridge!Subaru's subplot, so there might be a problem within me and The Ultimate CLAMP Angst Triggers.
Still, I don't think I'm a bad or a lesser CLAMP fan because I'm not digging it, or my nose isn't dripping for Fay|Yuui's Sad Past Of Dooooooom. It's just the magazine format plus my non-CLAMP fandoms' awesomeness what make it lose points, along with my ideas about storytelling.
(*) It IS quite possible for a mangaka to do all those things at once, believe it or not. Probably not in most popular, fanservice-oriented fandoms, but it certainly can be done. I can think of several manga that managed to pull this off beautifully and, unlike Fay's past
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What I like about FMA is that the plot is so balanced and it gives out so much the quick frequency doesn't bother a lot (quite the opposite, you're all in withdrawal after three weeks of waiting!) A month is enough for Arakawa to plan and do her chapter, so the inconsistencies are minimized, and she can leave a fat cliffhanger to be resolved more calmly next time. CLAMP do take breaks and won't do one-two chapters a week when they need to take it easy, but it still feels strangely paced: some arcs are too rushed, some are stupidly slow. Arakawa's pace is slow, but it builds well.
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It makes me wonder if maybe sometimes I drop a new series too quickly because it doesn't catch my interest so quickly when a lot of my favorite series that I watched all at once I didn't necessarily love right away either. But with these series there is no waiting so you can breeze through the not so great episodes quickly and get to the good stuff.
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hi Death Note, or they lose steam at the middlehi Bleach. Princess Tutu is a cool example of getting better with time.no subject
On the other hand, like you said, it is possible to like some kinds of angst and not others, in spite of what the fandom in general seems to think. Even by the same author. For example: I read Clover, RG Veda, and X/1999. I read all of them complete, so the weekly wait wasn't a factor for any of them. I loved the angst in Clover, liked parts of the RG Veda angst while others made me roll my eyes, and thought X/1999 was way too exaggerated (I know, I know, heresy and all that). This isn't saying that "Clover is zOMG sooo much better than X!!!11!", it's just saying that I personally prefer subtler angst than piles and piles of doom and gloom.
That's why the current Tsubasa storyline isn't working for me. Not only the angst is neverending, it's all for the same character. There's a point where sympathy turns to disbelief (it's just not possible for a single person to have all that bad luck) and then to ridiculous. The thing is, these are blurry lines and they vary from person to person. What is normal angst for one fan is waaangst for another. Some people still can suspend their disbelief when it comes to Fye's past - well, good for them, they're still enjoying it. But I don't think I'm a lesser fan because I happen to disagree.
Something else I've noticed is that a great part of the fandom thinks that "angst" automatically means "good", and I just can't agree with that. Conflict is good. But 1)conflict isn't always angst, it can be adventure, mystery, etc.; and 2)angst can be handled in a bad way. Really, it can. Look at soap operas! If the amount of angst alone measured the quality of a story, then damn, telenovelas are the deepest things ever. ;P I hate the "angst = deep" and "happy = stupid" idea in fandom, because it's not always true. And it doesn't only happen in CLAMP fandom, either.
What is particular to CLAMP fandom, and I can't stand it either, is the people who constantly repeat "why are you here if you don't like angst?". First of all because, like you said, disliking the angst of a particular series or arc doesn't mean that one dislikes angst in general. And second, because it's just not true that CLAMP writes only angst. Duklyon? Wish? Card Captor Sakura? I'm tired of being treated like a "lesser fan" because I like the happier series. Sometimes it's just a matter of taste.
Sadly there are fans out there who see "I like CCS more than X" and interpret "I only like stupid mindless fluff and all X fans are stupid for liking it and KAMUI SHOULD DIE!!!111!!" *sigh* I honestly don't know how to deal with that kind of people.
And, um, sorry for the long rant on your LJ. ^_^U The short version is that I agree with you.
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1)conflict isn't always angst, it can be adventure, mystery, etc.; and 2)angst can be handled in a bad way
Agreed completely.
If the amount of angst alone measured the quality of a story, then damn, telenovelas are the deepest things ever
XDDD And by that approach, the best shoujo series is Candy Candy, and the best shounen Saint Seiya! :D
Besides, while TRC is melodrama central, are't they also doing Kobato, which in its new canon is just sugary crack? I've seen people doing icons of X, TRC,
the Sakura and Tomoyo showCCS, and Kobato in the same batch, so it's not like it's unlikely someone can dig all CLAMP styles.no subject
Exactly. And fandom (in general, not just CLAMP) is very touchy, and there will always be people who see someone else's opinion as a personal insult... *sigh* I just don't know how to make people understand that I'm not telling them they shouldn't like Tsubasa. I just want them to stop telling me that I should like it. Right now I'm only reading it to understand all the HOLiC details.
and some people just like to read stuff there's no chance in hell it could happen in reality (or canon, if it's AU fanfic)
You're also right, and I think I didn't express myself well when I said "it's just not possible". When you're reading fiction you're prepared to suspend your disbelief. The problem is what you said above: suspension of disbelief is subjective. Just like I love LOST and other people think it's too WTF, others like Tsubasa and I think it's too WTF...
PS
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Y ya lo sabes, ahora hasta que no acabe le tomo 21 no puedes leer NADA! ;D
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Pero no puedo D: Porque yo sí que quiero seguir con XXXHOLiC porque no tengo tantos problemas con ella (aunque el plot device de desmayos me están empezando a tocar los huevos un poco) y manejo un fansite, y no saber qué pasa con TRC puede compremeter mi comprensión ahora que hay crossovers o referencias cada tres capítulos o algo.
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Era una idea ^______^ aun asi poco crossover en el lado de TRC va a haber en los proximos capis no creo que Yuuko se entrometa XD y .... PORQUE tienen que empezar a dar explicaciones YA @_@;;;
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The side characters are more fun than the main ones.But I've heard of the angst and the woe and I'm all wtf. This series was peppy cute last time I checked o_O Where did the angst come from? I figured Fai DID have angst in his past of course, but bringing it out all at once sounds like it'd be wheeeeeeeokaythisisn'tfunanymore. o_o I wouldn't know though. I stopped at Book 9 xD;;
Hopefully the angst doesn't stay. Fruits Basket sorta did that and it drove me nuts.
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I LOLed XDDD
I normally read magazine or volume scanlations anyway because I hate to be outdated with the rest of the fandom, and licensed manga is just SLOW. Besides, sometimes I leave a fandom half the way, and it's better to know you won't go on with the series "for free" than after spending money in an awful volume.
With most Weekly Shounen Jump titles, I normally let several chapters to pile on, and then I read in a batch when I remember. When the fandom is monthly or it's shoujo or the releases are more recorded, it's easier to be up-to-date for me. Otherwise, I just wait for scanlations to be out and that's it.
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Y el angst no tiene nada de malo, pero de verdad, hay que saber balancearlo. Y este año he visto tanta cosa que ha mezclado el humor y el dolor de formas tan sublimes que realmente, TRC IS LACKING. (Y SI ES POSIBLE, el humor y el angst no son incompatibles al mismo tiempo)
Y bueno, yo no me considero fan de CLAMP... no soy fan de CLAMP, asi que tal vez este de mas por aqui, lalala.
Lo que me trae la pregunta.. por que rayos las CLAMp son tan masoquistas de publicar capitulos semanalmente, eh?
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IAWTC. Probablemente no con los mismos fandoms, pero es muy cierto que hay muchas cosas que los combinan muy bien. Me gusta mi humor con algo de angst, y mi angst con algo de humor.
Eso da igual XD Mucha gente comentando aquí es fan casual de una o dos cosas, o les huyen de plano como la peste.
Creo que es culpa de publicar en una revista shounen semanal, y tener la presión de ser la razón principal por la que la gente compre la revista. Y francamente, con lo largo que va la historia incluso sin contar los mundos tirando a relleno, les tomaría como 20 años publicar este manga en formato mensual x_x