About next generation sequels

[taotrooper]

❝WHICH HOGWARTS HOUSE DO I BELONG IN?❞

Anyway, here's a reflection. Next generation sequels: cash cows, butchers of canon, chances for more cool world building? For my bitter nitpicking over everything Okamiden, it would seem I'm against them as a subgenre. But... no, actually. It's a case-to-case thing to me. Sometimes it works, sometimes it's awesome, sometimes I want to send bomb letters to the one who had the brilliant idea.

I do admit I'm more strict to them when the nextgen characters are children of the previous protagonists, though. Maybe it's all the fanfiction where we get kids related to the characters all the time, with different degrees of quality. Maybe it's Disney and the awful direct-to-video sequels scaring us out. I have no idea. I'm aware it's really unfair to the kids to be this kind of nextgen, Mary Sues or not, since they'll be compared to their parent all the time. Not that legacy nextgen doesn't suffer from that, but it's like a celebrity kid trying to become famous on their own.

But we have our reason to be weary as fans: they can break canon/fanon too easily in the hands of a lame writer, and we can't deny their canon status. What if they sink most ships? But even more importantly: what if they leave plotholes or do retcon? This is why I can't squee about Okamiden: evil is back so fast? redoing Susano's son to be cuter? new Brush Gods?! all of this to justify Chibiterasu? LAME.

Legacy nextgen -what I call when the new character fills the old role but is only slightly related somehow to the old protagonist- tends to be more thought out. They can still leave plotholes and do retcon, but sometimes it's less... I don't know, fanficcy. Plus, if we don't like it it's easier to stick to the other part of the canon and be Pharaohs of Denial consider this a canon AU or something, not a part of our continuity. This is what a part of the Phoenix Wright fandom seems to do about Apollo Justice, for instance.

Yet there's an issue when it comes to legacy, and it's this: how do the the old main characters stand? Are they dead? Are they alive but are only mentioned? Are they companions and/or enemies and/or MacGuffins of the new guy? Are they the mentor figure since there was a timeskip? Let's see every case.

a) Ded. Hmm, tricky one. If this happens many years/centuries later and they want to continue the worldbuilding, it makes sense they're not around as it's a different story where they're the myth. The issue might come when the timeline is recent, and fans will jump since OMG THEY KILLED OMC YOU BASTARDS! and feel all ripped off. I normally don't mind this one so much.

b) Just mentioned. It depends of how it's handled to me. But it can be easy for fans to feel ripped off if they were expecting the character to have a role and then they didn't even see them. The authors/creators should say right off that it's not OMC's story but NMC's, to avoid confusion and wank. It's easier to handle cameos and mentions like this.

c) Character or MacGuffin. It also depends. I try to judge the plot itself and give NMC's story a chance, at least. But the thing is, OMCs can get intrusive sometimes. It can be very tempting to have them hijack the story so in the end; the whole plot is about OMC and justifying what they did during the timeskip and telling what they're doing now. In the end, NMC seems to be a point of view or a minor character instead of the actual lead. For fans of OMC it might be so fair, especially if they dislike NMC, but I think it's playing dirty and perhaps I do want to get to know NMC better. Don't get me wrong, I like secondary characters being just as important, but didn't they have a story before? If you want to make an actual sequel, have NMC as an apprentice, not a main character? But yeah, this is a YMMV and case-to-case thing. If the NMC is as boring as Jason in the next Percy Jackson series, who cares.

d) Mentors. Subtrope of the above. It's a great way to keep OMC around and have character growth for them. I love mentors. I like it a lot when it's exactly this: a mentor. As read above, mentors can hijack the plot. Yes, I'm talking about Apollo Justice and this is why I can't entirely swallow Phoenix's role: I sort of like you, but please GTFO the spotlight for GS5, hobo. And be more mentor-like, FFS.

It is a YMMV thing, I think. And very dependent of the plot in each case. There might be children-of-OMC that I can like, and dead-OMC that I can hate with a passion. But yup, overall I can say it's unfair to dismiss the new kid because it's not the old kid, and I try to love/hate the NMC based on themselves.

Why am I bringing this rant up? Avatar: The Legend of Korra. I'm not freaked out about it just because it's nextgen. I'll wait for more details to form an opinion. I do like the rumors I've heard (happening 100 years later, Korra being the next Avatar, a waterbender, AND a female: if that's the case, it'll be timeskip legacy OMC-as-dead-mentor nextgen, and it sounds so potentially cool with focusing on a female Avatar this time)

Comments

[laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com]

Although it's usually a case-by-case thing for me, I tend to be a fan of type a with a long timeskip. Probably because it's what Star Trek TOS --> TNG did, who knows. XD

That said: overall I can say it's unfair to dismiss the new kid because it's not the old kid, and I try to love/hate the NMC based on themselves
THIS. And I have hopes for Legend of Korra.

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

I've always wondered... besides the common universe (planets, races, etc.) and the Enterprise, are there mentions to other characters and events from other series in Star Trek? I imagined it was all continuity from the "next generation" part of the title, but I saw no mention to anyone TOS in the two episodes I watched.

[laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com]

It's the same continuity but around 100 years later. There are very, very few mentions of TOS characters. (I think it's better this way, because the TOS characters are REALLY iconic and the comparisons would suck. Also there was one movie where they went all timey wimey to include Kirk and... everyone hated it. XD)

Also, I don't know if TNG as a whole would be your thing, but I wonder if you'd like the episodes with Q, at least. He's a trickster type after all.

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, that's better. And that helps if you jump into a series without having watched any other before.

I liked him in the one episode I watched! Him and Data.

[laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com]

Oooh, the one where Q loses his powers? That's one of my favourite. =D

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

Uh, I think not. It was labeled the first episode. He puts them in this sort of medieval trial and then they do their thing at some random planet and they prove humanity's worth and Q is like "kk you win this time" or something.

[laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com]

... ah, I know which one. Yup, it's the first! I just saw "Q" and "Data" and my brain jumped somewhere else. XD

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

Just saying that I liked those two characters by the little I saw o/

[laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com]

You have good taste =DDD Data is, predictably, one of my favourite characters in the show.

[ayasugi-san.livejournal.com]

"*stab* Seems human enough to me."

and

"What do I have to do to prove to you that I'm mortal?"
"Die."

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

.........Goddammit, Hyatt, I was planning to watch that series one day!

[ayasugi-san.livejournal.com]

? That's an example of the humor from the episode where Q gets depowered. Because he's not very popular with the crew, and some of them take malicious delight in his pain. (The stabbing was with a fork, to the hand.)

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

Oh. It sounded like character death without the context.

[ayasugi-san.livejournal.com]

Context! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x012BnKWi3g) For the second quote, at least, and no more spoilers than what's already been revealed in this thread.

[marbles-chan.livejournal.com]

I do think it's a YMMV thing. I like the idea of timeskips, and I do enjoy nextgen sequels as long as they're done right. I mean, I like the idea of it, though I can't for the life of me think of a good example. I remember enjoying Digimon 02, at least...!

But yes, timeskips. I was actually hoping that the new Avatar series would be set in a completely different era or something. Reverse timeskip, maybe :D The great thing about setting it in the past is that you don't anger any crazy shippers about who made babies with who.

I still wish they did a series that focused on the older characters of the show. What happened to Ursa? What was her marriage with Ozai like? What happened to Iroh after he failed at Ba Sing Se, did he go on a spirit world adventure? How did all these old masters meet up? Did they kick ass back in the day? /deeerp

[fujurpreux.livejournal.com]

The great thing about setting it in the past is that you don't anger any crazy shippers about who made babies with who.
I LOL'd. But you're right. XD

And I'd like to know about those questions, too.

[marbles-chan.livejournal.com]

What was the real reason behind Kanna/Gran-Gran running away from the Northern Water Tribe, if she apparently marries Pakku sixty years later, anyway? How did Jeong-Jeong manage to hide from the Fire Nation for so long? What's the story behind the Guru? Who was Fire Lord Azulon, what was his regime like? What about Koh the Face-Stealer, how long has he been trollingaround? Is there any truth behind the legend of Oma and Shu?

these are all fanfic ideas that will never be written. |D

[fujurpreux.livejournal.com]

... Would you mind if I take some of those bunnies to write them myself? >>;;

[marbles-chan.livejournal.com]

asfkjskafjas only if you link them back to me somehow 8D! You have no idea how much I've been hoping to find backstory on any of these characters.

/has been playing with the idea of The White Lotus: Campfire Chronicles or something. "Camping with Bumi isn't be easy, as Pakku is quick to learn..."

[fujurpreux.livejournal.com]

I will! :D

I'd read that. XD

Your icon is so cute.

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

"Camping with Bumi isn't be easy, as Pakku is quick to learn..."

*DIES*

Why so awesome, Avatar old guys?

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

They're so tricky. I can think of some sequels I liked, but it could be more about my subjective taste as it's hard to get them done perfectly well. But timeskips are cooler because it can potentially be more about worldbuilding than milking old characters.

Reverse timeskip are normally prequels so they're a whole different beast. Oldgen instead of Nextgen, more about the mentors or parents or wise old monkeys in their prime. I LOVE THOSE. I'm a sucker for flashbacks and backstory. But as much as I'd like to see the focus on the previous Avatars we've seen (Roku has a great story, Kyoshi is badass, the waterbender one had this story with his love interest and Koh), I don't think they're going for that. Especially since they've already given the main character's name.

I'd LOVE to see more about that generation of the Fire Lord family. I had the theory that maybe "Korra" was the new name Ursa had adopted while she was on the run, but then I figured that it would be risky for Nickelodeon to do a cartoon series with an adult woman as the protagonist. Sigh.

[fujurpreux.livejournal.com]

I didn't know about the new Avatar project. Sounds nice. And if the original authors are going to be behind it, even better; they know how to write female characters :3

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

That is if Korra IS a female. If Sokka and Hakoda are indicatives of male Water Tribe names, finishing in A means nothing regarding gender in this fandom.

[fujurpreux.livejournal.com]

But Katara ends in A too, and Pakku ends in U. >>;; /keeps hoping it's a girl.

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I was trying to use reduction to the absurd. It's easier to find exceptions to demonstrate that something is false than getting absolute proof that says it's true. /logic

But exactly. Pakku, Bato, Kuruk, are examples of male names with no final A. There are also female names with no final A: Yue, Ummi, Nini. So, yeah, I think we've proven this means shit regarding gender XD

*wants Korra to be a girl SO DAMN MUCH*

[fujurpreux.livejournal.com]

ILU ♥

We'll have to wait to find out. :| /takes a sit

[doxorz.livejournal.com]

I think it depends on how they write in the NMC and how soon he/she gets introduced after the OMC (s) leave. If they have NMC's storyline converge with OMC, how writers execute that is extremely important.
Things like this is all about execution of ideas that reflect the universe of the old canon and keeping it similar, but adding unique flair that set the two canons apart from each other.

On another note, I'm excited for the Legend of Korra. It sounds quite awesome so far.

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

Yup, it's all about the writing and creativity to make it different and similar. Then again, so do original plots. It's like everything, really. The only difference is that it's trickier and the audience has some expectations.

Whatever it will be, I sure it'll be awesome.

[bearhive.livejournal.com]

Oh god, thank-you. : ( I am tired of being shunned by Okami fans, despite it being one of my favorite games of all time, for not being absolutely in love with the idea of Okamiden. Babies?! That blasted EVIL I worked so hard to banish returned!? Ehhhhhh... It's making Ammy look like a joke her baby will most likely sweep up for her, and that makes me sad face.

If there really has to be a sequel, let's just go with a completely new story, and brand new characters with a few simple cameos squeezed in here and there. D: That'd have me way more excited.

[ayasugi-san.livejournal.com]

Or a sequel about fixing the Celestial Realm.

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

But they'd have to pull something so she doesn't start with her full power-up.

I think a prequel would be lots cooler, even if it's not nextgen. Playing as Shiranui!Ammy until her death; we can have Ishaku as the Exposition Fairy, have flashbacks to the Celestial Plain times, doing the timey-wimey crossover and fight the mechaowls. It has better potential for new characters while keeping some old ones (Ammy herself, Ishaku, Waka, Nagi, Orochi, Oki)

[ayasugi-san.livejournal.com]

Hm... She'd have to find some way to bring the rest of the Brush Gods to the Celestial Realm before she can use their powers?

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

Uuuum, I can think of ways for it to make sense, but it's because my headcanon regarding the Brush Gods and Amaterasu really helps in that sense. But then there's this: she's already maxed up in power and knowing all the brush techniques by the end of the game! So a sequel would have to power her down first so you the player can relearn and grind.

[rainmage.livejournal.com]

To be fair about the evil part, since the last baddie was the embodiment of darkness I figured Yami was just temporarily banquished. Like, he'd come in cycles to dick around, and in that particular era he was enabled by whatever happened in the Moon Tribe and then om nom nomming the Celestial Tribe. But yes, you'd think it'd take centuries for the youkai to come back! And the first boss isn't impressive at all, I bet Ammy would kill that yakuza frog in 10 minutes top. What kind of mother would send her cub to handle the few monsters that eluded her? Did she receive parental advice from the King of Cosmos?!

The more I think about the plot, the more annoyed I am and the more guilty I feel for harshing the squees.