taotrooper: It's a polar bear dancing the hula; your argument is invalid (Anise / looking for a fight?!)
Kiri ☂ ([personal profile] taotrooper) wrote2011-05-24 07:56 pm

I'll be over here, vomiting

In my eternal search for well-written mythology butchery fiction, I might have stumbled into what might possibly become this subgenre's very own Twilight. Just the description really, really, REALLY annoys me in several areas.

→ They paid HOW MUCH for this?! To a newbie, no less. Man, either this woman writes like a god, or it's very Meyer-esque with Romeo-and-Juliet shit they recognize it's automatic cash cow. I lean to the latter, knowing the YA industry.

→ The Iliad in High School. WHY WOULD YOU EVEN.

→ Making a novel about a reincarnation of Paris/Helen, which is just terrible in general.

This then begs the unfortunate question: should she be with the boy she loves even if it means endangering the rest of the world? LET ME GUESS, IT'S GOING TO BE THE CLAMP WAY, ISN'T IT? Instant resolve not to read this ever.

pitched it as "a Percy Jackson for teenage girls"

...........................there is SO much wrong in this sentence.

Noonononono. No, dammit. You know what is Percy Jackson for teenage girls? IT'S PERCY JACKSON ITSELF, YOU ASSHATS!! Titular boy aside, this series is filled with amazing and BAMF teen girls to look upon! And there's a balanced male-female hero ratio, so there are many to choose from. And even more amazing? Many of them get love lives too! So being in wars and dating isn't mutually exclusive, and they don't get to risk the world for Soulmate Hottie like this Helen chick who just sounds kinda psychotic if you ask me.

[identity profile] vyctori.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 06:06 pm (UTC)(link)
I am seconding your entire post SO HARD NOW.
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 10:10 pm (UTC)(link)
I'll use matching icon to second your seconding.

[identity profile] vyctori.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 12:12 am (UTC)(link)
Can't match this?

I swear, though, if I see one more "FOR GIRLS" or "FOR BOYS" tag on something, I am going to lose my shit in the worst possible way. How about, seeing as we're in the 21st century and all, we stop using gender demarcations? Maybe? Possibly? ...No?
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 12:36 am (UTC)(link)
Closest I have is this, sadly.

I don't think we'll get any of that soon, sigh. It's a bummer because it makes any kid who enjoys the opposite gender's stuff (or both boyish and girlish things) feel like a freak of nature. Most geek girls, when they grow up, at least cross the line and appreciate all stories despite of the tags. A lot of geek boys, however, might be uncomfortable or ashamed for watching My Little Pony or getting addicted to Robot Unicorn Attack. And geek genderqueers just be over there, refusing all binaries.

[identity profile] vyctori.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 01:24 am (UTC)(link)
For being such a huge fan of those guys, I have no matching icon. D:

Gotta love how it's somewhat okay for girls to do "guy things" but OMFG SO WROOONG for guys to do "girl things." Yay sexism!

Once again, I count my blessings that I have A) understanding parents and B) an awesome brother. When I was little, one day, we'd play with his Hot Wheels, and the next day, we'd play with my Barbies, and not only would we not see anything wrong with this, we were both equally content.
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 01:52 am (UTC)(link)
Poor men, if they do girly things their genitals fall off.

That's pretty awesome! I was an only child until I turned 12, but I got any toy I asked for. At least half of them were girl-oriented (Barbies, ponies, She-ra action figures, baby dolls) and my mom still tries very hard that I behave/dress more feminine, but I did have some tiny cars and airplanes, and I happily asked for neutral toys like LEGO sets and video game consoles. Or at least *I* think of them as neutral because they're targeted to anyone; I don't recall girls in my school ever talking about LEGO and online gaming today seems so misogynist.

I did suffer from a short phase where I ran away from things that seemed to be targeted at boys. I wouldn't admit loving Aladdin because the title character wasn't a girl.

[identity profile] vyctori.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 11:31 am (UTC)(link)
XD I guess my mom's not getting any grandchildren from my brother, then!

Sadly, kids would probably say LEGO was for boys. :/ Even though I loved playing with it, too, and I bet I could find half a dozen girls I know who did, too, without even trying.

In all honesty, I can't say I'm surprised. I've run into kindergarten kids who are very adament about "This is for boys" and "This is for girls." The only reason I haven't run into younger kids doing that is...I don't substitute for daycare. But I bet they'd be doing exactly the same thing there.

So with all that pressure...well, who could blame you?
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 03:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, now you know! XD

Hmmmm probably, especially since people seem to equate adventures with boys. But really, it's a creative toy to build anything and you're not required to have testicles to join plastic bricks with instructions. Mind you, I might've had a couple of medieval castles and a pirate-era navy ship, but I also had generic buckets that included shit like little flowers and one of my oddest sets was a pink beach house with a swimming pool. Yeah, so manly~~

Education starts at home, and very few families let kids play like you and your brother. Of course, when they come to school most are already set on following their gender roles. That's always been society, sigh.

Nah, all my classroom (girl-only school btw) loved Aladdin and had Jasmine backpacks. I was just weird ever since I read a dumb review saying it was a Disney film "for boys". It's hilarious because I was SO tsundere for it. I'd openly say it sucks, and then at home I'd watch it once or twice a month! I was telling my family I was "teaching" myself to like it or something in denial like that. It was my guilty pleasure.

[identity profile] hikari318.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 11:57 am (UTC)(link)
Oh god LEGO... All my childhood!
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 03:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I think it was my favorite kind of toy overall :D

[identity profile] sha-chan.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 06:53 pm (UTC)(link)
....dude what the hell esa trama.

Y UGH UGH A LO ÚLTIMO UGH.
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 10:11 pm (UTC)(link)
La trama ya se ve bastante mala, pero compararla con Percy Jackson porque hay mitología griega es como DEMASIADO DX

[identity profile] lunelight.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 07:07 pm (UTC)(link)
The Iliad in High School. WHY WOULD YOU EVEN.

....

......

ಠ_ಠ
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 10:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Every fandom must have a high school AU, but they normally stick to FF.net. I once saw a review of a book that was Hades/Persephone high school AU. WHY DO THESE THINGS KEEP GETTING PUBLISHED, I DON'T GET IT.

[identity profile] lepluvium.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 07:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Helen Hamilton attempts to kill the most attractive boy on the island, Lucas Delos, in front of her entire class.

From reading that, I'm just going to pretend that this thing is Battle Royale and save myself from being angry.
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 10:18 pm (UTC)(link)
See, I would actually read a recreation of the Trojan war as Battle Royale. And I don't even like BR that much, but it sounds like a pretty cool way to see the douchebags in The Iliad die.

[identity profile] laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 07:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Very few things make me rage more than that "[__________] for girls" bullshit.

WHAT THE HELL.

[identity profile] laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 07:58 pm (UTC)(link)
... oh, fuck, and it was ACTUAL WOMEN saying it that way? It's not even mansplaining? WHAT THE HELL UNIVERSE.
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Ladies, just because you like your selfish starcrossed (durr hurr) romance bullshit doesn't mean ALL FEMALES would want that. Maybe some of us instead of your advertised as "*insert popular thing in the genre with a male protagonist which has nothing to do with your story* for gurrrrrlz" fandom, would much prefer the popular thing you badly compare it with.

And even if they hadn't made that Percy Jackson Without Action Cooties allusion, it's just a checklist of shit that none of us both would like. Yuuuuuck.

RPG account because I'm lazy

[identity profile] wherenobotsgone.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I know. I knoooooow. I hate the whole "all females in the world like ONE GENRE AND ONLY THAT ONE", and it's even worse when women themselves perpetuate it. Whyyyyy.

it's just a checklist of shit that none of us both would like. Yuuuuuck.
So, so true. Just from the blurb it looks like I'd be headdesking so much. And I like romance, but this kind? Yuck.
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:36 pm (UTC)(link)
But that kind of extends to anything material, not only fiction. Girls get dolls and boys get hot wheels cars. Girls get pink dresses and boys get blue shorts. Girls get sandals with heels and boys get sneakers. Girls get roses and sparkles in their manga and boys get fart jokes and kame hame ha. Adult women get harlequin novels and adult men get magazines with nude centerpieces.

Instead of hearing things like Ouran being "reverse harem", I want to see people calling harem shounen series as "shoujo for boys". Because it's what it is. Most moeblob anime is more shoujo than most shoujo. And the one or two guys are as Gary Stus as bad shoujo heroines.

Hey gals, did you dislike Paris? Did you drop the CLAMP fandom? YOU'RE GOING TO LOVE THIS ONE. Bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh.

[identity profile] laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Ugh, yes, so true. There's nothing wrong with liking any of those things, but... it's like it's required. And even then, boys (and men) get a lot more choices than girls (and women).

Instead of hearing things like Ouran being "reverse harem", I want to see people calling harem shounen series as "shoujo for boys". Because it's what it is. Most moeblob anime is more shoujo than most shoujo. And the one or two guys are as Gary Stus as bad shoujo heroines.
SILLY KIRI, DON'T YOU KNOW BOY IS THE DEFAULT.

I knooooow. DX And the worst part is that it could be interesting if it treated Helen and Paris as, y'know, a bad example. But even the summary makes it obvious that's not the case.
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 12:07 am (UTC)(link)
Then you get the backlash with That Kind of Feminists who crucify anyone who does like the default. Let me be in between and enjoy boyish and girlish things all the same. Some afternoon, little!Kiri built a LEGO castle and played knights vs Robin Hood's merry men vs pirates, but the day before she turned the space between the couches and the coffee table into sea for her mermaid dolls to swim. Even my preteen years had this balance with violent fighting videogames and playing soap opera with my Barbie dolls.

LOVE HINA AND AH MY GODDESS IS SHOUJO, DAMMIT! Making the females in a romance into bland fanservice and give a male the lead = FOR MENNNNNNNNNZ.

I only read 5 chapters of The Iliad, but between Paris' epic fail at life and the Greeks' douchbaggery, I can't root any side of this fucking war.

[identity profile] insanepurin.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 01:33 am (UTC)(link)
I only read 5 chapters of The Iliad, but between Paris' epic fail at life and the Greeks' douchbaggery, I can't root any side of this fucking war

The one character I liked in The Iliad was Hector. I can't stand Paris and Helen and Achilles. Just ugh.

[identity profile] laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 01:45 am (UTC)(link)
This is exactly what I was going to say! XD

(Well, I liked Patroclus too. But not Achilles. UGH, ACHILLES.)
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 02:00 am (UTC)(link)
Image

I haven't read enough with Hector yet, but I have yet to meet someone who doesn't like him.

[identity profile] laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 01:48 am (UTC)(link)
Then you get the backlash with That Kind of Feminists who crucify anyone who does like the default.
That really bothers me, because while I do understand feeling backlash about something that's been forced on you, making other people (especially young kids!) feel awful for being themselves is... sort of not the point of feminism at all. :|

I know nothing about Love Hina or Ah My Goddess, but I get you on the sentiment, yup.
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 02:05 am (UTC)(link)
This could get pretty dangerous/annoying to discuss in public, so I'm just going to say: I agree. And let's leave it at that.

Staple oldish cast-of-one-(loser)-male-many-females romance shounen stories. Love Hina is particularly nasty in clichés because it is harem.

[identity profile] lil-1337.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 08:37 pm (UTC)(link)
And here I was hoping that Meyer's good fortune was just a fluke. There are days I weep for humanity.
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Nah. Since her books sell like hotdogs, the publishers must now look for similar bland novels to attract the same audience that read Twilight. From a recent time I keep seeing bookstores giving a boost to L. J. Smith, Charlaine Harris, Cassandra Clare, and even the classic Anne Rice. So really, it's a vicious cycle that just keeps proving Sturgeon's Law right.

[identity profile] lil-1337.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:40 pm (UTC)(link)
I noticed that paranormal romance is big in the teen section now and just shook my head.
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:47 pm (UTC)(link)
It has urban vampires and a lovely but generic cover? Quick, put it next to Twilight!

[identity profile] lil-1337.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Exactly!

*admires your icon* My daughter is playing the second game right now.
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 12:27 am (UTC)(link)
Awesome! That would be We Love Katamari, right? In Europe we never got the first game and that's the one my brothers and I played. (Which might be why I find the King of Cosmos endearing despite of supposedly being a titanic bastard.)

[identity profile] lil-1337.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 12:39 am (UTC)(link)
Yes it is. *grins* That would skew your view of him.
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 02:12 am (UTC)(link)
Very much so. I am aware of the mess he does in the first game and his dreadful parenting skills, but the woobie levels in the flashbacks are too much.

[identity profile] anthraxpretzels.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:11 pm (UTC)(link)
percy jackson was aight

lmfao i love how ya books for girls make the most difficult decision 'which boy do i like'
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:19 pm (UTC)(link)
I really like them, but I'm very easy with my YA.

But see, I have no problem with that as long as it's not the only thing going on for a female character. Just sticking with PJO, Annabeth DID go through "which boy do I like" (one was one-sided brotherly, but she still had her doubts... and to be fair with the bros, Percy too had his love triangle indecision.) The difference? IT WASN'T THE MAIN PLOT AND THEY WERE STILL KILLING SHIT WITH SWORDS ALL THE TIME. This one trilogy looks just trashy and boring.

[identity profile] anthraxpretzels.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Also I am tossing in some unfortunate implications:

>Helen cheats on her boyfriend
>Lucas prefers hot chicks over smart/politically savvy chicks
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:38 pm (UTC)(link)
If they don't, then they're not AU!Helen and Paris!

[identity profile] insanepurin.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Shh, teenage girls hate conflict and action! Selfish, star-crossed "romance" is all young girls are interested in reading, remember?

GAAAAAAAAH! brb going out and breaking things. *HULK SMAAAAAAAASH*
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-24 11:43 pm (UTC)(link)
No, you see, conflict and action is okay if it's FOR LOVE. There's going to be a war! That's conflict and action! We just don't care because TWOO WUB! Just like Romeo and Juliet has duels between the families, and people dying, and then the two bands made up when the two dumbasses dropped dead, but no1currs because Epic Classic Love!11!

...Oh God, this stupid book will be compared to R&J too, won't it?

[identity profile] insanepurin.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 01:37 am (UTC)(link)
No no, this is modern times. Romeo & Juliet Paris & Helen Helen & Lucas are gonna live happily ever after of course! One (or both) of them will die, but it'll be better 'cause they'll come back to life with the Power of True Love!!!11! :DDD
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 02:09 am (UTC)(link)
Considering she goes to the underworld in the second book, sounds like they'll be pulling an Orpheus, but successfully!
solesakuma: (Default)

[personal profile] solesakuma 2011-05-25 08:33 am (UTC)(link)
I've grown more and more stereotypical in what I like, but even then... I just hate the fact that both men and women are almost forced to give up certain things. And it's also blatantly untrue. Many women like action and many men like romance. And most people actually like both in different degrees.

I liked both Verne and Alcott and I'm not a fucking fluke, I'm normal.

Relatedly - it's well-documented that girls relate to male characters as well, but little boys do relate to female characters - my brother's favourite Who characters? River and Amy! He even cares about Amy/Rory and he's ten, when he's supposed to go 'OH NOES IT'S ROMANCE, ICKY'. He read CCS and then Slam Dunk and he liked them both well enough.

I just... seriously, is it really hard to realize that people like what they like and that romance is not inherently inferior nor inherently girly?
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 02:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I never mention it, but your little brother's reactions and not giving a fuck about gender conventions is SO adorable. He's going to be an awesome guy when he grows up.
solesakuma: (Default)

[personal profile] solesakuma 2011-05-26 11:48 pm (UTC)(link)
And it's not only him! His friends are like that as well. And that's why UI care about stuff like this. Kids are sponges, I hate when they get chastised and forced into gender conventions.

[identity profile] hikari318.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 12:02 pm (UTC)(link)
This read like a badfic summary...
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[identity profile] rainmage.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 03:00 pm (UTC)(link)
And technically, it IS! An Iliad badfic turned into a published YA trilogy that's worth millions. WHYYYYYYYYYYY?