taotrooper | And now THIS is a flame

Horrible, horrible, horrible. Poor and wooden exposition for *three*
chapters? I realise one can't avoid placing down a little groundwork
but for God's sake, this is ridiculous. If nothing else, Clow is such a
person to wish for Kaho to discover certain things for herself. It
would have been better to have him set her tasks of a sort, so that she
learns that she herself holds the answers already.

Nice premise, shitty execution.

But...

People who have read my E/K fic up to chapter 3, does this person actually have a point? I'm trying to think about it, but I'm fearing I might stick to my subjective logic and disagree with it forever.

Because, you know. I'm trying to think any moment Clow (as in Clow, not Eriol; maybe the reviewer confuses them?) wanted anyone to figure things out by his/herself. Let's see, uh... Sakura? Got her important explanations from Kero, Syaoran, Yue, Kaho, the Eriol-tachi. Clow always provided explanations to Sakura through people. The only person related to Clow who figures a big part of the picture, although not with the whole details, by his own was Touya, and Clow never had that much of a plan for him -or at least beyond giving Yue his magic, if Clow had known that.

Kero and Yue never figured things by themselves, would always find out about Clow's true schemes through the Eriol-tachi, and their memories were altered -more than once, in Yue's case- so they could never.

This is the people Clow loved and trusted. If he never wanted them to come up with answers on their own with no external help, why would he give a damn about bell-bearer Kaho, future reincarnation-girlfriend or not? He and Eriol can't figure out hearts for shit, so would they know she's capable of coming up with the answers on her own?

Also, we don't know how strong Kaho's clairvoyance is. I've thought long about it before writing this fic, and considering Kaho has sported a WTF face more than once during the Final Judgment, I doubt she could be able to figure everything by herself (with or without Eriol's explanations.)

And also, I find know-it-all!Kaho so boring and Sue-like. The Clow affair is messy, and most of the involved people could only understand the big plan after everything is done and you've heard everyone's story. If not even Clow Reed knew how everything would out to be... why would random shrine maiden Kaho Mizuki, who's described as much as an absent-minded person as she's insightful?

Dunno, that's the logic I used for my plotbunny. Obviously, if the reader's interpretation of the characters involved in my Eriol/Kaho is strongly against it, it might look "shitty", "ridiculous", and "horrible", I guess.

...That's what I'm trying to tell myself, but now I'm wondering if this person's not-flame part of her review does have a point, and my fic's exposition is truly that horrible and OOC for Kaho and Clow/Eriol. What do you, two people in my flist who read this fic and some other CCS fans, think? I need some outside perspective on how to take this. Be honest.

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... way to be rude. They could have said exactly the same without sounding so petty - it's not even snarky, just nasty.

That said, my opinion. First of all, you know I'm not completely impartial: you know my tastes, and that I like this kind of exposition, so take it with a grain of salt just in case. But there are a couple of things you should take into account.

#1 - You're using the exposition for character development. It didn't feel to me like it was just Eriol giving an infodump. Because we already know the plot from canon, I could pay more attention to the way Eriol and Kaho act as characters and around each other, Kaho's reactions to hearing the story for the first time (that are never shown in canon, and that makes them interesting) and your take on Eriol's motivation.

#2 - There are many people who left you good reviews, in LJ and in ff.n, and they're not just your friends. So "horrible" and "shitty" are out of the question. (Especially because many of those are people with high standards for fics). More importantly: you already got actual concrit, and no one else mentioned this as a problem. That makes me think it's more of a difference of tastes.

If I were you, I'd take it account so it won't become constant exposition, but I wouldn't worry about what's already posted. I think you would have heard it from more than one person if it was really a problem.

I think it's also like she interprets characters and canon in a different way. My interpretations of Clow, Eriol, and Kaho differ with her (as in I don't think Kaho could figure everything out on her own, or that Clow would rather leave them all to investigate on their own -hell, I bet he'd LOVE it if someone could know everything because that'd be a shock for him, but it's not plausible without elevating Kaho to, say, Yuuko's level or something.)

1. The problem is that she sort of assumed Kaho knew -everything- when she touched the bell or something, so making her oblivious to most of the story and Eriol telling her that stuff is teh horrible and anti-Clow of him. Which is, you know, the whole point of my premise, and this is why she broke my head by saying my premise is good but the way I develop it is shitty. What does she think my premise is, anyway? I have a bunch of them to put into this fic, and one of the main ones is the very thing she hates.

2. I know, I know. But I still wanted to share because I was wondering if it wasn't a valid concern people who reviewed me overlooked. Also, while I don't know if they're still reading but not concriting, not everyone who read the first chapter on LJ is commenting on the exposition chapters, so there's always a chance I was doing something wrong.

Oh, it won't. But of course, it's inevitable the exposition will go on for the next, say, two-three chapters, plus the one time I'll have Eriol deciding to tell Kaho he was Clow. The rest of the fic, though? No exposition. Occasional philosophical stuff in a Clow/Yuuko sort of style, maybe. But after that it'll be Kaho bonding with Eriol and his guardians by doing silly things. The most boring, tl;dr part will pass by soon.

The problem is that she sort of assumed Kaho knew -everything- when she touched the bell or something

Yeah, it looks like that judging from this part: so that she learns that she herself holds the answers already. If it's about different interpretations, then there's no way she's going to like it. The thing is, that has nothing to do with the *quality* of the fic. I think the exposition was necessary and I wouldn't have cut it.

But I think it's great that you want to analyze it and see if there's some truth in it. It's the best way to deal with these things.

Setting Kaho tasks? What is this, Cardcaptor Kaho?

I think your Eriol and Kaho are MUCH more in character than most of the fics on the Pit, and I'm wondering if your reviewer is going by fanon instead of canon.

And there are several thousand different ways to write backstory for something, and you're the first I've seen do it, ever, and if they don't like it they should write their own.

The point is: this person is LAME. He is not l33t. So you should keep going.

Or Karate Kid!Kaho, featuring Miyagi!Eriol.

"And after you're done with the fence, you should wash and wax my car making circular movements."

"Eriol, do you even own a car?"

"..."

"...Besides, how am I going to figure things out by doing chores in your house?" (*)

"Hey look at the time! Five o'clock! Do you fancy your tea with biscuits?"

Thank you, that's what I try ^^ Well, maybe she also could've gotten that feeling from anime!Kaho, who was teh purfect. I mean, if anime!Kaho can keep telepathic conversations with Touya, sucking the important information from the Bell and Eriol's brain must be a piece of cake. Or something.

And there's Clow, who's so minor every fan of his has their own fanon regarding his personality. Still, I see no hints in canon he would do/believe what this person thinks he would *shrugs*

(*) That's Yuuko Ichihara's MO, not Eriol Hiiragizawa's.

Agreed and amused.

Popping in quickly after a 22-hour day, hope this makes sense.

I think that, with Kaho, Eriol isn't going to lead her around like he did with Sakura, forcing her to figure out as much as she can by herself and using tough learning, but that he would wait for her to ask the right questions before giving out answers. Can't reread now to see whether I got that sense from your fic, but that's my general impression. Of course, that's mostly based on your characterization of him when he wasn't having his life turned upside down without so much as a by-your-leave in t_d, so it might not be the best yardstick for canon!Eriol...

See, I don't think Eriol even DID that with Sakura. He led her to change the cards without knowing why she should, that's it. The whole point of the saga was that Sakura couldn't know the truth or Eriol's actions might've not worked that well. The only info he forced on her was the fact Clow Reed was behind it. And since that's not remotely enough for her or the guardians to understand it... My fic is about knowledge, something that wasn't treated well in the Sakura arc until the last two volumes/anime episodes.

My fic's Eriol took the following approach: "well, first tell me what you do know, and then ask me what you feel you should also know." He didn't force-feed the conversation, although he decides on the order he tells things, and what parts he should discuss with her and which he shouldn't. She keeps interrupting him with more questions, though, and he tries to reply them subtlely without breaking her brain too much or denying her the information or lying. But to make up to it, when Kaho expresses an opinion or a conclusion she came up with, he asks her why.

Then again, my Kaho basically wanted to know what's up with all those people in her vision and why they needed the Bell, and that's... a fatass explanation with so many branches.

But basically, he wanted to know what exactly she could figure out by herself during those years because he was curious.

t_d/ccs_hm!Eriol has only had to explain himself to a mundane girl and a random witch how's not related to the Clow cards, and sometimes about stuff he didn't even understand quite well. When explaining to canon!Kaho, he can't have the same kind of expositions, canon!Eriol, fic!Eriol, or RP!Eriol.

And now THIS is a flame

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Forgot the footnote

Re: Forgot the footnote

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